I read an article a few years ago, where some Nascar engine builders will take the camshaft, grind out the lobes, re-weld in material that is harder and esentially re-grind the lobes for lift, duration and seperation for each individual cylinder depending on the estimated power that cylinder needs to make to keep the engine balanced at high rpm. Plug wire shortening-lengtening so the speed of the spark to each cylinder is delivered exactly when its needed. The little things they adjust to make power. Amazing.

JAGXK120 - 07 April 2008 06:00 PM

WOW !!!! I'm impressed ! No wonder they have fancy cyl heads and blocks and...
What's even more impressive is that most of them stay glued together...Thanks Bill !
Does this mean I should trade my TVR for a Toyota ?

That is the least of it. The coatings and platings inside the motors are insane. Your TVR might have some of those. A street Toyota will not. Don't apologize for not realizing there is real engineering in NASCAR. But do get out there and spread the news.

Mike

thewelderdude - 13 April 2008 09:07 PM

one reason there is a small difference between the speed of a restricted motor and an unrestricted motor is that as the speed increases, the amount of power needed to accelerate it increases exponentially.

Hate to argue with you, but that reasoning makes no sense. Run it through your mind again and I am sure you will see what I mean. Because the power demands rise exponentially the lower power engine should have nowhere near the speed of the higher powered one. The plate engines, with the current drag figures and mandated gearing are topping out at around 7500 rpm, or so. Even with the same gearing the unrestricted engines can make around 1500-2000 rpm more. That's a lot more speed. That's why NASCAR went to restrictor plates in the first place. At the rest of the tracks having to slow for the turns currently keeps the speeds in check. Well, almost. Wasn't it Greg Biffle who recently turned some incredible speeds in testing at Darlington?

JAGXK120 - 07 April 2008 03:06 PM

I'm sure this been discussed before but a search went no where...
Any good numbers for 2008 Cup car horsepower ?
I was just reading about Carl Edwards on this site and he claims 900 hp and 200 mph...
I got no problem with the speed but 900 hp ? How many cubes 348 ? or there abouts,
pushrods ,2 valves per cyl burning gasoline and turning 9000 rpm with a small 4 barrel ?
I not saying they are not but I've built some very hot big blocks ( not with those heads though ) and they didn't make 900 hp... Just curious that's all

The engines that you and other street rodders build are designed to last for tens of thousands of miles on the streets. A NASCAR engine only has to last one race weekend. They can modify and stress the engines in ways that would never work on the street. A comparison would be an 800 hp NASCAR engine to an 8000 hp Top Fuel engine. Both are pushrod 2 valve V8s. Of course, the fueler only has to last for a few seconds. (Some don't make it that long!)

LFingar - 26 April 2008 12:11 PM

thewelderdude - 13 April 2008 09:07 PM

one reason there is a small difference between the speed of a restricted motor and an unrestricted motor is that as the speed increases, the amount of power needed to accelerate it increases exponentially.

Hate to argue with you, but that reasoning makes no sense. Run it through your mind again and I am sure you will see what I mean. Because the power demands rise exponentially the lower power engine should have nowhere near the speed of the higher powered one. The plate engines, with the current drag figures and mandated gearing are topping out at around 7500 rpm, or so. Even with the same gearing the unrestricted engines can make around 1500-2000 rpm more. That's a lot more speed. That's why NASCAR went to restrictor plates in the first place. At the rest of the tracks having to slow for the turns currently keeps the speeds in check. Well, almost. Wasn't it Greg Biffle who recently turned some incredible speeds in testing at Darlington?

Hey, Welderdude, I owe you an apology. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. To create a big speed difference would require a lot of additional horsepower. Of course, that is exactly the situation that exists between a plate and non-plate engine.

I would say it is possible given better lighter materials cam profiles and better airflow cfm .....usually you take the (engine horsepower) BHP - 13% for driveline losses = RHP (HP at wheels) but at every track is different so you factor in drivers styles , gear ratios , rpm bands , peak torque peak HP curves carburetor CFM , cylinder head CFM numbers and select what is best for use at that track , from what i understand the cu. inch displacement of these engines is a 358 ... is it possible to make 900 engine only ? sure it is ...

Luis V. bronx , NY

Ive been looking for the Speed program where they dynoed new crate engines from 60 muscle cars. I have it on DVD, but need to find an online link.

Late 60s engines were all vastly underated for insurance companies. According the the dyno sheets on these engines, top dog was Mopar 426 Hemi (rated at 425) actually produced over 800 hp stock off the showroom floor, 427 Chevy was near 700. They tested 427s, 409, 427, 428, 302, 455, 440 and 426 and showed the slips at the crank. The rule was they had to be production set up, no fancy ign, carbs, rollers or headers.

ohiomopar - 04 April 2009 06:15 AM

Ive been looking for the Speed program where they dynoed new crate engines from 60 muscle cars. I have it on DVD, but need to find an online link.

Late 60s engines were all vastly underated for insurance companies. According the the dyno sheets on these engines, top dog was Mopar 426 Hemi (rated at 425) actually produced over 800 hp stock off the showroom floor, 427 Chevy was near 700. They tested 427s, 409, 427, 428, 302, 455, 440 and 426 and showed the slips at the crank. The rule was they had to be production set up, no fancy ign, carbs, rollers or headers.

Please do find that link; until you do I have to call 'bull***'...........

I had a '68 GTX 440 magnum rated at 375hp, and drove a stock car with 700+hp.....

No comparison. The 440 was a beast, but had nowhere near the power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31_CS4AfEQs

heres the video from the program. Included parts from 421 Pont, 426 Street Hemi, and 427 L88 Chevy. 440 was a torque motor. Enjoy

Something you "horsepower lovers" may want to read...

http://www.supermotors.net/articles/lfm-issue01-a2-1.php

Seems Ford had a pretty stout one.