With the recent changes at GM and Chrysler and the direction of these companies towards small cars, electric, hybrids and everything small.
V8's are no longer going to be a focus in this economy or administration, where is NASCAR going to go in Five, ten years when V8 have no future?
Ford or Toyota, possibly Honda or some other foreign engine builder will continue to fill the void with V8's.
Will Fiat fill the void with Ferrari V8 in Nascar? Could we see Ferrari's running in Nascar?

"Could we see Ferrari's running in Nascar? "

Hmmmmm..........that would require Nascar allowing OHC and EFI, or Ferrari building a carbureted pushrod engine. Which is more likely?

At this point, I'd have to say neither.

My guess is, at least for the next few years, Nascar will opt to freeze engines as they are now due to Detroit's problems until the industry shakes out some.........

wilmywood8455 - 02 June 2009 03:54 AM

"Could we see Ferrari's running in Nascar? "

Hmmmmm..........that would require Nascar allowing OHC and EFI, or Ferrari building a carbureted pushrod engine. Which is more likely?

At this point, I'd have to say neither.

My guess is, at least for the next few years, Nascar will opt to freeze engines as they are now due to Detroit's problems until the industry shakes out some.........

According to the restructure process, V-8's don't fit in any of plans. Trucks, large cars, SUV's are gone in both companies. Nascar will only have what they have, at least through the "normal" chain of acquiring these blocks and heads. The companies that sourced and manufactored these engines, cannot survive the lost of GM's and Chrysler's business.
In the world of GM and Chrysler, V-8's will have the same fate as the dinosaur's did.
With Fiat owning Chrysler and Ferrari as well, putting forth a V8 isn't that difficult nor is putting a manifold and carb instead of FI is actually quite easy, as it's bolt on. Though the pushrod's are a problem. One rule change could rectify that.
Nascar will have to change their thinking as the world changes around them, and as their engine supply disappears...

speedsense - 02 June 2009 11:11 AM

wilmywood8455 - 02 June 2009 03:54 AM

"Could we see Ferrari's running in Nascar? "

Hmmmmm..........that would require Nascar allowing OHC and EFI, or Ferrari building a carbureted pushrod engine. Which is more likely?

At this point, I'd have to say neither.

My guess is, at least for the next few years, Nascar will opt to freeze engines as they are now due to Detroit's problems until the industry shakes out some.........

According to the restructure process, V-8's don't fit in any of plans. Trucks, large cars, SUV's are gone in both companies. Nascar will only have what they have, at least through the "normal" chain of acquiring these blocks and heads. The companies that sourced and manufactored these engines, cannot survive the lost of GM's and Chrysler's business.
In the world of GM and Chrysler, V-8's will have the same fate as the dinosaur's did.
With Fiat owning Chrysler and Ferrari as well, putting forth a V8 isn't that difficult nor is putting a manifold and carb instead of FI is actually quite easy, as it's bolt on. Though the pushrod's are a problem. One rule change could rectify that.
Nascar will have to change their thinking as the world changes around them, and as their engine supply disappears...

I agree with all of that; I just don't know how fast Nascar will be to change, or how quickly Ferrari would be to develop a pushrod engine ; I'm thinking there's enough aftermarket out there to supply pushrod V8's for quite a while yet.

wilmywood8455 - 02 June 2009 01:19 PM

speedsense - 02 June 2009 11:11 AM

wilmywood8455 - 02 June 2009 03:54 AM

"Could we see Ferrari's running in Nascar? "

Hmmmmm..........that would require Nascar allowing OHC and EFI, or Ferrari building a carbureted pushrod engine. Which is more likely?

At this point, I'd have to say neither.

My guess is, at least for the next few years, Nascar will opt to freeze engines as they are now due to Detroit's problems until the industry shakes out some.........

According to the restructure process, V-8's don't fit in any of plans. Trucks, large cars, SUV's are gone in both companies. Nascar will only have what they have, at least through the "normal" chain of acquiring these blocks and heads. The companies that sourced and manufactored these engines, cannot survive the lost of GM's and Chrysler's business.
In the world of GM and Chrysler, V-8's will have the same fate as the dinosaur's did.
With Fiat owning Chrysler and Ferrari as well, putting forth a V8 isn't that difficult nor is putting a manifold and carb instead of FI is actually quite easy, as it's bolt on. Though the pushrod's are a problem. One rule change could rectify that.
Nascar will have to change their thinking as the world changes around them, and as their engine supply disappears...

I agree with all of that; I just don't know how fast Nascar will be to change, or how quickly Ferrari would be to develop a pushrod engine ; I'm thinking there's enough aftermarket out there to supply pushrod V8's for quite a while yet.

With GM and Chrysler rebuilding, will the aftermarket survive the wait?.. no one's bailing them out....

speedsense - 02 June 2009 11:11 AM

According to the restructure process, V-8's don't fit in any of plans. Trucks, large cars, SUV's are gone in both companies.

Huh? Then why is GM keeping GMC while getting rid of Saturn?

If V8's disappear, it will because of Obama's new CAFE regs and taxes, not because of corporate restructuring. Trucks will continue to be a significant revenue source for the "new" GM and Chrysler, just as they are for Toyota and Ford.

My guess is that somebody will buy the tooling and continue to make NASCAR pushrod V8 blocks as a niche supplier. After all, who makes those hemi V8's in top fuel dragsters? Surely not Chrysler.

As for Ferrari supplying a NASCAR engine, on that day Satan will ice skate to work.

NASCAR needs to split away from the manufactures and concern itself with building a sport. 4 cylinders? That would be death to NASCAR and the costs of racing would go through the roof.

They are much better off going with a sealed engine they lease to teams. A 454ci V8 sealed engine chiped to around 7500rpm with about 1000hp. Due to the reduced rpm there is less wear and tear and teams could run the engine in more than one event before rebuilt. The engine would allow better racing, cheaper to be competitive which allows more teams & sponsors, fans will like the 1000hp and run with it, the sound would be amazing and the amount of torque the engine puts out will challenge the best drivers.
People want to see good racing and the whole win on sunday, sell on monday is long gone. Lets make the sport the best it can be with an entertaining formula.

What kills a sealed engine program is lack of power. They need a minimum of 900hp with 1000+HP being optimal for entertainment. In order to get that amount of power cheaply and with reliabiliy you increase the displacement while restricting rpm.

NASCAR already ran 4 cylinders with the Dash series
NASCAR already ran 6 Cylinders in the Nationwide series
NASCAR changed them to V8s to "save costs", and it ended up killing one of the divisions.

aorton27, HP isn't really important, Torque and the Power to weight ratio are, HP is kind of an after thought.

Fisha695 - 04 June 2009 11:30 AM

aorton27, HP isn't really important, Torque and the Power to weight ratio are, HP is kind of an after thought.

I know, Fisha65, Hp is for marketing. 90% of the people that watch NASCAR probably couldn't even tell you the difference between horsepower and torque or what IS horsepower and what IS torque. Sure, a few people may give you the basic description by saying torque is that seat in the pants feeling when you hit the throttle and horsepower is what produces the top speed.. But they can not tell you *why* it does it. I would think the vast majority of people couldn't explain it and they couldn't be bothered to expend the effort and energy to find out.

But if they do see that 1000hp it will draw a lot of interest from media and casual viewers just because its a large number. Even though NASCAR would never use it unless they go to the salt flats. It would have a LOT more torque(maybe too much). Obviously Horsepower is the result of torque and rpm so if you reduce the rpm from 9500 to 7500 yet you get 150 more HP it is safe to say there is a large increase in torque. The only problem I can see with that is the strain it can put on the drivetrain and teams burning out rear gears,ect. But it would be good for quality racing because it would put more demand on driver ability and it will be harder to hook it up with a setup.

NASCAR maybe could use a 850hp 454ci at 6000rpm but it just wouldn't have the same curb appeal, especially if its going to be a sealed, spec engine.

Image is everything.

aorton27 - 04 June 2009 12:57 PM

Image is everything.

The image of a 454ci gasoline sucking torque monster seems a little out of place in the current financial and environmental scenarios. jmo, of course.

auntysquat - 04 June 2009 02:46 PM

aorton27 - 04 June 2009 12:57 PM

Image is everything.

The image of a 454ci gasoline sucking torque monster seems a little out of place in the current financial and environmental scenarios. jmo, of course.

Nascar isn't in the business of selling cars, it is in the entertainment business. Either you go to a 100% technical showcase with green cars, hybrids and electric racing or you go big, loud and out of control.. the middle ground will go no where in term of entertainment.

The way I see it people are there to be entertained and to forget about reality for a little while. Besides, the 454ci would be a lot cheaper than any 4 cylinder with similar power and can last a whole race.