ceejayT - 21 July 2009 12:11 PM

penske14 - 12 July 2009 08:21 PM

ok man i get it. you don't care for the powerplant that powers the irl field. that's fine. i put here for those who do like honda and the technology involved. personally, i don't agree with you. i like the way it sounds, looks and performs. it's a good engine in my opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall this is a badged Illmor that Honda has massaged over time...not something they designed and created.

i think you are half right about that. i do recall illmor having a hand in the design but all of these do come from the west coast prep facility where they are recieved from japan. i'll do a little digging and find out.

notscottspeed - 20 July 2009 04:09 PM

ptclaus98 - 11 July 2009 08:04 PM

Piece of crap.

uhhh... doesn't RELIABLE count for anything??? That's the most important function it serves for the IRL, who doesn't have money to replace blown motors weekly...I'm sure if Honda were allowed unlimited development, your opinion may be different...
but, hate all you want... it shortens lives...

The reliability should come from the ancillaries that the teams make themselves, and the drivers taking care of the car. Not because they choke the engine so much that it makes barely any power. Detuning it means everyone can flog the crap out of the car and takes out a critical part of racecraft.

The HONDA INDY V8 is an engine that was designed during the manufacturer competition era in the IRL. Since HONDA has no competition anymore they have just detuned the engine they had. Bigger, heavier, and more robust internals have taken the place of at the limit engineering and design. Also the electronics package that has come with paddle shifting mechanism has helped tremendously with over rev's on the engine. Even F1 with there 18,000 rev-limit has had there engines become extremely reliable.

I give HONDA tremendous credit with supplying the ICS with a great and equal engines to all the teams. I do however miss the competition between the manufacturers when they where trying to produce the best engines between them. I consider that competition between different manufacturers is also part of this great sport IndyCar racing.

On a side note that has nothing with this post that X-TRAC gearbox looks huge to me. It looks like a tractors gearbox.

ptclaus98 - 21 July 2009 01:27 PM

notscottspeed - 20 July 2009 04:09 PM

ptclaus98 - 11 July 2009 08:04 PM

Piece of crap.

uhhh... doesn't RELIABLE count for anything??? That's the most important function it serves for the IRL, who doesn't have money to replace blown motors weekly...I'm sure if Honda were allowed unlimited development, your opinion may be different...
but, hate all you want... it shortens lives...

The reliability should come from the ancillaries that the teams make themselves, and the drivers taking care of the car. Not because they choke the engine so much that it makes barely any power. Detuning it means everyone can flog the crap out of the car and takes out a critical part of racecraft.

Since the advent of the 'leased' engine, teams in IndyCar and many other series' have had very little opportunity to make any kind of changes to anything to do with engines that would make any difference at all. The only way to have more power is a manufacturer willing to do so, and without any competition, there is no point whatsoever in doing that.

wilmywood8455 - 22 July 2009 09:06 PM

ptclaus98 - 21 July 2009 01:27 PM

notscottspeed - 20 July 2009 04:09 PM

ptclaus98 - 11 July 2009 08:04 PM

Piece of crap.

uhhh... doesn't RELIABLE count for anything??? That's the most important function it serves for the IRL, who doesn't have money to replace blown motors weekly...I'm sure if Honda were allowed unlimited development, your opinion may be different...
but, hate all you want... it shortens lives...

The reliability should come from the ancillaries that the teams make themselves, and the drivers taking care of the car. Not because they choke the engine so much that it makes barely any power. Detuning it means everyone can flog the crap out of the car and takes out a critical part of racecraft.

Since the advent of the 'leased' engine, teams in IndyCar and many other series' have had very little opportunity to make any kind of changes to anything to do with engines that would make any difference at all. The only way to have more power is a manufacturer willing to do so, and without any competition, there is no point whatsoever in doing that.

+1

penske14 - 20 July 2009 06:56 PM

notscottspeed - 20 July 2009 04:09 PM

ptclaus98 - 11 July 2009 08:04 PM

Piece of crap.

uhhh... doesn't RELIABLE count for anything??? That's the most important function it serves for the IRL, who doesn't have money to replace blown motors weekly...I'm sure if Honda were allowed unlimited development, your opinion may be different...
but, hate all you want... it shortens lives...

i agree with that. i mean when was the last time that ANY car was forced to the sidelines for an actual engine failure? justin wilson 2008 long beach? that was a cosworth. 2003 buddy lazier, 2003 sam hornish, kanaan, wheldon etc. there were a rash of these with a.g.r. because they had the new gen honda and were apparently chewing up internals. needless to say, the hondas, even detuned, just live.

And when was the last time anyone said "wow that IRL engine sure is a tough engine to handle on the track!". They dont! While it might be reliable and serves well on the ovals, the fact of the matter is that its underpowered for a "premier" US open wheel series and like the other guy said, its sound is nothing to write home about which IMO is one of the most important factors for the fans.

Durandal - 24 July 2009 09:58 PM

penske14 - 20 July 2009 06:56 PM

notscottspeed - 20 July 2009 04:09 PM

ptclaus98 - 11 July 2009 08:04 PM

Piece of crap.

uhhh... doesn't RELIABLE count for anything??? That's the most important function it serves for the IRL, who doesn't have money to replace blown motors weekly...I'm sure if Honda were allowed unlimited development, your opinion may be different...
but, hate all you want... it shortens lives...

i agree with that. i mean when was the last time that ANY car was forced to the sidelines for an actual engine failure? justin wilson 2008 long beach? that was a cosworth. 2003 buddy lazier, 2003 sam hornish, kanaan, wheldon etc. there were a rash of these with a.g.r. because they had the new gen honda and were apparently chewing up internals. needless to say, the hondas, even detuned, just live.

And when was the last time anyone said "wow that IRL engine sure is a tough engine to handle on the track!". They dont! While it might be reliable and serves well on the ovals, the fact of the matter is that its underpowered for a "premier" US open wheel series and like the other guy said, its sound is nothing to write home about which IMO is one of the most important factors for the fans.

that's cool and all but how does it help us to blow up 10 engines every race weekend? at 90,000 dollars a pop, that kind of thinking would bankrupt half the field in one race. face facts, until we get another manufacturer involved, indy car is going to be this way. i don't like it but it's all we got. so i support the series until things get better. i've personally had 25 years of good....i won't tuck tail and run or complain because things got bad.

The reason you don't see any engine failures at all is because the Honda V-8's are tuned for reliability and the low rev limit of 10,300 only helps that. Not to mention the IRL doesn't run any high mileage races anymore like back in the USAC and CART days of multiple 500 mile races so the engines aren't stressed as much anymore. Other than the Indy 500, the longest race on the schedule is at Texas, where they run for 341 miles. Most of the races are sprint affairs where the engines aren't really stressed for 200-300 miles. This was also evident during Champcar when they used a spec Cosworth engine from 2003-2007, the engine was detuned to 12,500 rpm and the engines rarely blew up if ever. Having races that ran from 200-400 miles also contributed to few if any blow ups that could heavily stress the engines.

penske14 - 12 June 2009 05:03 PM

once again, for thoe who have never seen the raw unit, here it is.


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12
enjoy y'all.

Penske14. Broken Link. I couldn't hear it. Got directed to a site for a Kodak digital camera.

Knightewolfe - 14 August 2009 05:04 PM

penske14 - 12 June 2009 05:03 PM

once again, for thoe who have never seen the raw unit, here it is.


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12


By penske14, shot with KODAK EASYSHARE C633 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA at 2009-06-12
enjoy y'all.

Penske14. Broken Link. I couldn't hear it. Got directed to a site for a Kodak digital camera.

sorry about that knight, i was given a vacation.