Tommy_Crash - 24 October 2009 03:15 PM

jcmark611 - 24 October 2009 02:59 PM

The last people who should have input on the car are the fans.

True, and this thread wasn't exactly started by a "fan"

These artist's concepts are meaningless. You know what? It's going to look a lot like all the other formula cars out there because that's what works. Form fallows function.
(Unless things get really bad, and then we may actually see sprint cars at Indy.)

That first concept is fine for the next Speed Racer movie, or game console but it won't work in real life. Way too hard to get the driver out. Way too MUCH body work to save any money.

That is what I fear the "radical' new design might be throwback to the later fifties. Skinnier tires, minimal aero, no wings, front engine ... to try to recapture all the "lost fans" that hate the "funny furrin-looking cars with the engines at the wrong end."

Gil de Ferran said in an interview (I didn't post it because I was so sure someone else would) That IndyCars should ne the fastest cars in the world, with high power and low downforce. Since he owns (I believe) the record as the fastest IndyCar driver in the world (in an IndyCar on a track) and he drove in the era of lower downforce and 1000 bhp, I guess his opinion should count for something.

I'd imagine the two options would be something based on modern formula-car design, and something like the model they showed earlier this year, with rear winglets, getting most of its downforce through ground effects.

The idea either way in to have a car that doesn't need clean air to run well, so that cars can pass, or run close and try to pass, without doing the elastic-accordion routine of make a run, fail, drop back half a lap, try again stuff.

It seems to be widely accepted, all modern formula cars share the problem of creating so much turbulence, running close and passing can be a problem. Whatever the new car looks like, I hope it doesn't share the problem.

The series that figures out how to race and pass will have a big boost.

One way to do that is to either not make so much turbulence or clean it up before it leaves the car. I think the first "single diffuser" rule in F1 was to clean up the air flow. But, a few teams found a loop hole and made the double diffuser, which gave more grip, but messed up the air flow.

Could a "radical" design have all the DF created in the first 3/4 of the chassis, and the last 1/4 attempt to smooth it out again, so the next car is not at a huge disadvantage ? That might mean the rear wing is further forward or the trailing end of the car has more bodywork.

If you look back, some of the cars of the 70s and 80s had a much lower rear wing, which was less efficient, but probably created a lot less turbulence.

Maybe the solution is to create DF on more surfaces, but the over all effect is less disruptive methods.

Tommy_Crash - 24 October 2009 03:15 PM

jcmark611 - 24 October 2009 02:59 PM

The last people who should have input on the car are the fans.

True, and this thread wasn't exactly started by a "fan"

None the less, it is a legitimate question..

If I had to hazard a guess, Dallara probably doesn't want the designs shown. Whichever design IndyCar doesn't go with Dallara may want to sell to another series. I doubt they'd want their designs to be made public so their competition will not steal them.

jcmark611 - 24 October 2009 07:25 PM

If I had to hazard a guess, Dallara probably doesn't want the designs shown. Whichever design IndyCar doesn't go with Dallara may want to sell to another series. I doubt they'd want their designs to be made public so their competition will not steal them.

Who would want to steal Dallara's ICS designs and what would they do with them?

I can see it now, in a dark alley in Istanbul.

"pssst, hey you there, yea you, you want to buy some hot Indy Car designs. Man you can start your own Indy Car series. I'll tell 'ya what, I'll let you have these for a special price, just tonight only. Otherwise I take them to Moscow and sell them to the highest bidder.

Hey, dude, where 'ya going? Come back man.

Lol. Excelllent.

"Psst... hey ... C'mere ... want to get really, really fast?"

Europe and Japan have several open wheel series that could use the designs.

Tommy_Crash - 24 October 2009 03:15 PM

jcmark611 - 24 October 2009 02:59 PM

The last people who should have input on the car are the fans.

True, and this thread wasn't exactly started by a "fan"

Nice personal attack, but completely untrue. I'll match my fanaticism and longevity with anyone here. And that's why I'm so critical of where the Hulman-George family have taken real AOWR.

Back to the point, none of these are radical; they are just an updated rehash of what's already been done. And nothing like these will generate any new interest. It this is the best they can do by 2012, then may be they should hang it up.