I'm not defending NASCAR or anyone else. I'm just tired of the double talk.

Perfect example. NASCAR ruined the race with the restrictor plate.
Further down, someone's going to get killed if they don't keep cars from flying. So NASCAR put the plates on the car to make them go into the stands? You just contradicted yourself.

So the drivers back in the points had to race hard to stay even or make up ground on the point leader. Who knew?????

Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

Drivers complaining that they have to race hard to catch the points leader. ROFLMAO. Let me guess. Mark Martin.

Cars wreck at Talladega. Awful. It's stupid that they can't bump draft in the corners, but it's stupid that cars in a race wreck.

Knaus thought it was a great race with lots of action?

The DRIVERS, at 200mph, on national TV, say they are bored to tears.

Think about that from the fan's perspective, sitting at 0mph in front of a TV, or worse, in expensive seats in the stands.

Sorry Chad, I think you've bought into the NASCAR corporate mindset a bit too heavily.

well.. you won't find me complaining anywhere on here about NASCAR telling them they can't lock bumpers 360degrees around the circuit.

I've never liked the plate tracks or the races they put out. they stink, imo.. especially Talladega.. any track where handling has zero role and lifting the throttle is only something you do when you come to pit road.. it's not racing

any time you are dependent on those around you on the track to go fast, you're not racing..

needing no-doze to keep you alert during a race- not racing.

spin it how you will. I say cut down the banks and take off the plates and you'll have better racing. You say if they cut down the banks it'll just be another cookie cutter.. I'd rather watch cookie cutter races than any race at Talladega. For that matter, I'd rather watch HPC at Winchester.

I feel as though you have addressed many of my own posts in your little rant, there Spin Doctor. So I will respond to those that stand out to me...

Impound rules: I do not like them. Especially in NNWS. It gives those that are set up to run the entire race a huge disadvantage, due to Start N Park teams going out with a 100% qualifying set up. The other GOGH cars that plan on actually trying to race all day then either go home, or have to start the race with a two lap set up that goes away so fast that by the time they get a long run set up thay are laps down.

Restrictor plates: a knee jerk stop gap measure used by NASCAR when it became deadly apparent that modern technology rendered Talladega and Daytona just as unsafe to watch as to participate in.The side effects of the plates include three wide packs of cars going nowhere, cars that are so easy to drive that drivers become drowsy, less than talented drivers running up front, big crashes, and cars flipping into the fence... just what they were supposed to eliminate. Counter productive end result. My fix, if the tracks are unsafe for modern technology, then technology has rendered them unfit for today's race cars.

Bump drafting: I find it to be more dangerous in straights only than to push all the way around the track. Most wrecks seem to occur upon the initial shove, no matter where that is. You get sent off line on a straight, you will wreck, as Tony Stewart did Sunday. If you initiate a bump, push down the straight, let him go in the turn, then you have to go hit him again down the straight, that is more times you have to initiate the bump draft. If you hit him on a straight, and continue on pushing all the way around the track, then only once is there an initial hit.

Jimmie Johnson: Chad Knaus cheats. Has been caught more than once. And has won Championships in years that htey have been caught. Not too much of an anti-cheat deterrent to win millions of dollars in awards when you get caught cheating in the process.

CoT: I appreciate the safety concerns addressed by this car. And I understand that it was supposed to level the playing field and take aero out of the equation. But, with the longer roof supports to accomodate the taller greenhouse, it seems that the roof is now more prone to collapse. The splitter has kept aero in the sport, has limited front suspension travel, can be used as a tire slicer...And by using the FWD/Four door model, it is exceedingly ugly.

The Chase: nothing but a late race debris yellow to bunch the field, at the expense of whoever had worked all year to build a point lead, and for the benefit of those that were either less than consistent or not all that competitive. The fear of missing the Chase has made many drivers run conservatively for 26 races, and sucked the life out of what was one of the best races of the year, the fall Bristol race completely.

I think that should cover it for now.

Nope, nobody in particular. Just the forum as a whole.

We can (and do) take apart each part of NASCAR racing and discuss how it's good or bad for the sport. And I agree with several points. There are at least 15 threads on each topic noted. That's not what this thread is all about.

This thread is about all of the double talk.

I like many of the drivers and teams, as they are by far the best in the US of A.

Some of the tracks put on some great racing, others are better suited for the IRL/CART cars they were built to accomodate. While others have been proven to have outlived their use.

And suspect debris yellows, the Chase, Lucky Dog and any other means to artificially tighten up the field is an unneccesary gimmick to appeal to those that do not already love the sport of auto racing.

Quit trying to attract those that will never watch NASCAR, and try to please those that do.

“Perfect example. NASCAR ruined the race with the restrictor plate.
Further down, someone's going to get killed if they don't keep cars from flying. So NASCAR put the plates on the car to make them go into the stands? You just contradicted yourself.”

Don’t be obtuse.

Restrictor plates are the wrong solution. Defending failure is the NASCAR way. What fans want, is for NASCAR to address failure by turning it to success, not by denying it.

There is no “strategy” in superspeedway racing, except the strategy Jimmie Johnson used: keep away from the crashes. All the lead changers are meaningless, because all the action happens after the big crash. And seriously … everyone from the most ignorant fan to the drivers to the announcers to the NASCAR officials knew there would be a crash that would wipe out one-third to one-half the field. KNEW it. Because there always is at superspeedways.

What kind of race is it, where everyone is just waiting for the wreck to choose the winner?

What we need is less defensiveness and more creative thinking. Obviously the race sucked. And equally obviously, restrictor plates don’t make it safer (Carl Edwards in April in the stands—sounds like a lovely story, doesn’t it?)

Instead of defending a failed stop-gap measure that somehow has hung on for 22 years and never worked, let’s try thinking of different approaches that might work.

Again way off topic. Good discussion, but off topic.

To say "get rid of the plates" and then say "they have to do something to make it safer" is contradicting. Catch 22.

We can debate whether the plate IS the ultimate answer, or the wicker bill in CART, or the smaller engine in the IRL, or the chicanes and grooved tire in F1. The sand pits on road courses.

I'm not defending the plate, I have my own solution to the problem that would cost no more than the current plate engine.

But that is off topic for this thread.

Tear down all the tracks that brought NASCAR fame, they are slowly getting rid of them anyway. Build the cookie cutter D-shaped and dog-legged 1.5 mile ovals which are popping up everywhere,anyway. Make sure they seat 200,000. Find Signore, wherever he is these days, and prepare the cars (one generic body style and engine package) IROC style,and..........BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY, Let's go racin' boys.

"To say "get rid of the plates" and then say "they have to do something to make it safer" is contradicting."

This is where (on topic) we differ.

Get rid of the plates, which have Not made it safer. Simple concept.

Do something to make it safer. Simple concept.

Where is the contradiction?

Ask the girl who got a mouthful of Carl Edwards' car how much safer plate-racing is compared to pre-1987 days.

So ... yeah, get rid of the useless plates which only serve to make the race dull and keep it dangerous ... and do something to make it safer.

A simple, wide S-Turn in each straight, to slow drivers down and create real passing opportunities, would get rid of bump drafting and lower speeds so that plates weren't needed.

With plates killing throttle response, drivers can't back of or they will get rear-ended or drop way back. So getting rid of plates improves the racing. Doing something besides plates to lower speed increases safety.

Look, some people don't express themselves well in writing. But they still love the sport and care about it. And they see two problems, plates and safety issues. They want both addressed.

(Or so I think. I am not a mind-reader, just a board reader.)